Gary had written: A believer cannot question what he believes. If he did, he would prove not to believe. So, once
committed to belief, the power for the believer to question God or the Bible is gone.
PT wrote: Or maybe it's because of the Holy Spirit. Maybe you should look at the passages and really think about what
it's saying.
G: What Holy Spirit? "Thought" is the most supernatural or spiritual quality that human beings have. Outside
of "thought" (imagination / memory / creativity), there's no evidence of any Holy Spirit or any thing else that can be
considered "supernatural". Produce some thing that you identify to be "supernatural". In reality, you can not and you
will not. You too can walk trough walls - in your imagination, only.
PT: To me it appears as though your site appeals to emotion too much...
G: "Emotions" (do wants / don't wants and their intensities) are covered on "The Authority Addiction" page @
Emotions assist thoughts to be remembered. If you attach a feeling to a thought with some emotional intensity,
chances are, memory will take place. Conversely, if you don't attach a feeling to a thought, with some intensity, memory probably
will not take place.
PT: ...it's as if you want to find something wrong with God.
G: LOL! I see that not much gets past you. Did you browse "The God Murders" and "God's Evil Deeds" to figure that out?
G: In reality, should you or I or anyone else, fight to live, we do not give God permission to take our
lives - do we? In fact, if someone is terminally ill and struggles to survive, isn't that person actively defying God's "will"
to kill them? If this were true, wouldn't God consider life-saving doctors and medicine to be evil? Some Christian Scientists have
fanatically supported that perspective and have allowed their sick or injured children to die without medical care.
PT: It's according to God's divine plan, right now he doesn't want us to die. So we live and he gives us the ability
to make choices of how to live our life. Nonetheless if God thinks that our time is up then our time is up.
G: Yes. However, according to Christian dogma, on "Judgment Day", if you fail God's divine test, you will suffer "Eternal
Torment". "Eternal Torment" is an overkill sentence. That sentence certainly does not fit the crime.
Even if an person should commit a full life of crime, which nobody does, he or she should not be punished and tormented
for all eternity. This God is a tyrant and a monster to have such a "divine plan" put into existence. People, who make
other people miserable because they did not live up to their specific expectations, follow this ugly model. And we wonder
why people cannot get along and why the world is such a mess.
G: Was Satan ever documented, C&V, to kill anyone in the Bible? Not really. But if you think so, was
God behind Satan's killing them? God did have Bible documented "Death Angels" that He used to murder masses of
human beings.
PT: It's in the book of Job. Yeah, I guess you could say that God was behind it, nonetheless you just wanted a time when
Satan kills right? You should be aware he killed many people spiritually.
G: Where does the Bible document, C&V, that Satan killed people spiritually? God was guilty and God
would be tried for the murders of Job's children and servants. Again, those murders fulfilled God's agenda
to show Satan Who was right and who was wrong. Satan, and the other "Death Angels" never did any murdering, as
documented Bible C&V, on their own - did they?
PT: This will take a while to explain...
G: I will devote some time.
PT: God created Adam and Eve in His image. This means that they were not created as automatons, but had free will.
G: If you tempt an innocent child with candy, how much "free-will" does the infant have? If just one human being
on Earth truly has "free-will", God is not in control. If God does not change, as Biblically documented, then
God, Himself, has no free-will.
(God does change often. The Bible lies.)
PT: He created them therefore, with the ability to follow Him, or not to.
G: Hummm, did you just allude that God created us with the ability to not obey? And then, God gives us
"Eternal Torment" if we choose not to obey? That is a totally insane agenda! Even 1/3rd of the
Angels in Heaven didn't follow or obey God. Obviously, this God isn't well liked by many in Heaven or on Earth.
PT: What good would it be, if God created us as automatons, programmed to follow God, and to never stray from that program?
G: What? What good would it be? That would save billions of souls from Eternal Torment. Would that be good
in your value system? That some souls don't follow God and are given the sentence of Eternal Torment does seem to fulfill
"God's pleasure". That is the reality, according to scripture, isn't it?
PT: Could we then really love God? No. Our love would not be authentic. BUT, God created us with the choice.
G: God is the most miserable, tyrannical, jealous, murderous and angry character in the entire Bible. Can you name
any other Biblical character who is more so? Knowing what this God has done, anyone who would passionately love, promote,
support and finance a character like this God is insane. They are certainly afraid that this God will send them
into Eternal Torment if they don't. I personally choose to not be around this character, groveling, worshipping and serving
Him for eternity - singing His praises minute after minute. Noooooo, thank you.
PT: Same with Adam and Eve. They were created without iniquity, as Satan once was. However, they had free-will, which
meant, they could stop fellowshipping with God, whenever they wanted.
G: If an inventor builds something that doesn't work right, it is the inventor's fault - isn't it? How can you correctly
blame the thing that he or she invented?
PT: When Satan, and later, Adam and Eve choose to worship themselves, (When did they ever do that?) instead of the one
true ever-loving God, they created iniquity within themselves. God created Satan, Adam, and Eve without iniquity, but,
since they had free will, they had the ability to create iniquity within themselves, through their decisions. This is what
happened.
G: Ergo, God was a flawed Creator to allow such a flaw. Check out my page: "Samantha" @
It is "relative" to this issue.
G: Jesus claimed not to change a jot of the Hebrew scripture - although He was guilty of it. That's on
the "Jesus' Sins" page.
PT: Are you talking about Matthew 5:17? Because Jesus only spoke about certain laws. The laws in the Old Testament can
be divided into three parts. The moral and civil parts were specific for Israel and for a certain time. Jesus refers here
to the moral law, i.e. the Ten Commandments, which is given to us all, and lasts till the end of time.
G: Ask any Rabbi ("The O.T. is the book of the Jew's that Christians believe in" - according to comedian Lewis Black)
and the Rabbi will instruct you that there are 613 commandments in the Torah. Obeying some of those commandments will
land you on death row - like - the Bible commands you to kill gay men, sons that disobey and non-virgin girls.
PT: On if the earth will last forever, Jesus doesn't say here if the earth will pass or not. He only says that no jot
or tittle shall pass from the law until the earth has passed. Jesus doesn't make a claim here about any passing of the earth
or not. Just that the law will last as long as the earth will.
G: Sorry - this is a little confusing. The Bible states: Heaven and Earth shall pass away...
G: There are Bible C&Vs that indicate God created evil.
PT: God did not create evil directly. Here's an example: You have a child. The child grows up, and has a child.
Did you procreate your child's child? Of course not. However, your child's child would not have been in existence, without
you having your child. So, indirectly, you procreated your grandchild. This is how God created evil.
G: Ah, the working of inventive minds. God created Adam and Eve - who did not obey God. God had to view Adam and Eve
as His human children and His first-generation evil. God judges what He considers to be evil and sends souls to Hell for eternity
based on his tyrannical, egocentric value system. God's murderous deeds, in the Bible, prove that God has a
murderous value system. Any love for this God, if He is totally known and understood, has to be based on fear. If believers
love this God because He murders people and torments their souls for eternity - then, those believers
prove to be insane.
PT: God created Satan, who in the beginning had no iniquity in him, until Satan used his God given free will to
become evil. So, God created Satan, who at the beginning had no evil, but then Satan created evil within. God indirectly created
evil.
G: If the serpent in the Garden of Eden was Satan, then, God put this evil "Satan" in the Garden with His newly
created Adam and Eve - didn't He? What did this all-knowing, loving God know, expect or predict would happen? Yet,
if this God is all-knowing, this God would torment souls forever for things He already knew were going to happen. Based on
this Biblical scenario, either the Biblical God is a moron or God is a monster. Either way, believers claim to love this
heinous entity - fictitious or not. If all-knowing God knew that Adam and Eve would fail, why did God create them?
If God didn't know that Adam and Eve would fail, God is not all-knowing. Specifically, if God did know, God
proves to be a monster.
PT: However, you also have to see the context surrounding the word evil, when mentioned in the Bible. Often 'evil' just
means negativity, punishment, anger, etc. At some points in the Bible, God is said to have those reactions to certain sins
His people did.
G: Did God ever react to the sins His people did? God made His "chosen people" slaughter other people so to steal
their lands and when they didn't totally obey, God had them defeated and taken into slavery. Where do I sign up!
PT: The modern bible is not inerrant. Why do you think it is? Why does it matter so much?
G: LOL! Why does it matter so much? Because believers believe in the Bible. They support it and promote it. Could that
be why it matters so much? Anyone can go to C. Dennis McKinsey's "Biblical Errancy" web site to see all the Biblical
errors @
G: Obedience is the reason God punishes and murders people. We all agree to that. Enemy combatants in Iraq refuse to
obey Bush - so he kills them. Doesn't make it right, does it? This has been humanity's legacy due to this murderous God model.
PT: There's a big difference between Bush and God. God knows people's hearts, gave them a few chances to change, and
he has to deal with people who make human sacrifices for false Gods.
G: God obviously did NOT know the hearts of Adam and Eve - did He? If God truly knew the hearts of Adam and Eve,
He set them up for their fall. Didn't He? Then God punished all humanity throughout history for being sinful - because
of Adam and Eve? What a God!
Here are a couple examples from the Ezekiel page:
Ezekiel 20:8-41 God said: (Israel) rebelled against Me and refused to listen to Me. They did not abandon the idols of
Egypt. I gave them My statutes and Ordinances. They rebelled against Me. I thought to put an end to them. I swore not to bring
them to the land I had given them. But, I looked at them with pity not wanting to destroy them. But, their children rebelled
against Me.
PT: I wish I knew which version of the bible you were using and where exactly to read this but anyway I think you're
talking about Ezekiel 20:26.
Ezekiel 20:26 I let them become defiled through their gifts--the sacrifice of every firstborn --that I might fill them
with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.
But this is not a case of endorsing human sacrifice, but a case of God giving rebellious peoples what they want and deserve
by giving them their "freedom".
G: God said here: I let them .... sacrifice their firstborn, didn't He? Do you think that the innocent first-born babies
appreciated the fact that their loving God gave their parents the freedom to sacrifice them?
Regards,
Gary DeVaney
Donate to: “The
God Murders”!
Donate
today, and help us spread this controversial Biblical Chapter & Verse knowledge worldwide!
If
you and 99 other people donate …
$200 – We can make Wikipedia available in developing countries and universities
worldwide through DVDs, CDs and manuscripts.
$40 – We can deliver 100 million pageviews of free information!
Any amount is appreciated!
Feel free to donate any amount you
like; these are just suggestions. The amounts here are approximate, and donations of these amounts will not be restricted
to the activities described, but will be put into the general “The God Murders” operating fund.
Your Government does not approve
of “The God Murders” so they will not grant a write-off. They want believers praying and obeying. Doners
are mostly “thinkers.”
How much are you willing to give?
We accept cash, checks or money-orders
mailed to:
Gary DeVaney
3823 S. Maryland Pky. H-6
Las Vegas, Nv. 89119
Thank you so much!
