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The Bible According To DeVaney
Genesis: Noah - Abraham

 
 
Genesis: Noah - Abraham

 
by Gary DeVaney
 
 

Genesis 6:7-10 God decides, except for (8 people) Noah, his wife, his sons Shem, Ham and Japheth and their wives Who? Who? and Who? and some of each kind of animals (including serpents?), God would murder every living thing.
 
If God is a jealous God and if there is but one God, no other Gods to be jealous of, what is going on here? Paranoia? Schizophrenia? Is this God moral? Loving? Fair? Sane? Does the God depicted perform evil for His own pleasure? God is obviously not in control.

Did Noah leave any daughters behind to drown in the flood? How come Mrs. Noah has no name and says nothing? Was she angry with Noah, God and the whole setup?

By dealing with these questions and maybe some of your own, do you feel fear? Yes, we have been programmed eternal pain, but we were also programmed that this was a God of love. Do you see any love here? Granted, this study and awareness does take courage...

Intellect: The speed and accuracy of perceiving and understanding things. The ability to perceive relations and differences; it is distinguished outside of will and feeling.

If one emotionally does not want to make sense of things, one’s intelligence can definitely be affected by the feelings that make up his or her attitude.

Genesis 6:6-14 God spoke to Noah: Every living substance I have made, I will destroy from off the face of the Earth. Every thing that is in the Earth shall die.

What a model! If we are all God’s children, does this not qualify for child-abuse? Isn’t God clearing out "corrupt genes" that He, God Himself, created? Does it not take an imperfect creator to create something imperfect? Haven’t human fathers murdered their own beloved children due to their disappointments?

Genesis 7:2 God said: Of every clean animal, take seven (7) pairs each, male and its mate aboard the ark; of unclean animals, take one (1) pair each.

Seven (7) pairs. Are you surprised? And, one thinks one knows one’s Bible…

Genesis 7:13 Noah, his wife (who), his sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth and their three (3) wives entered the ark.

Wouldn’t you think the mothers of all mankind would be important enough to be named? But - Nooo!!!

Burt Visotzky: I am a rabbi and I have a vested interest in promoting rabbinical tradition. I recognize that friendliness to women is not part of the tradition.

Wow Rabbi! That's a smokin dose of reality.

Genesis 7:21-23 All creatures, outside the ark, that stirred on Earth God murdered by drowning.

Who, right here, proves to be the greatest adversary? Are these deeds moral, fair, loving? "Good God" drowns all the living organisms. Man, obviously, has the power to give this God of the Universe enough pain to motivate this cruelest of all deeds. Frustrated babies behave better. In your Bible, has there been any mention of a Devil or any Satan, yet?

God creates mankind for His own pleasure (Revelation 4:11 KJV) than destroys men, women and their babies when He wasn’t pleased. Wasn’t God’s pleasure at the expense and suffering of others? Is this the success-model God left for human egos to follow and emulate?

Rabbi Burton Visotzky: God claims his creation is good then realized it wasn’t so good. God destroys his creation and starts all over again. God was dissatisfied in Himself. God tries something. It isn’t right. He destroys it and tries again.

So, Rabbi Visotzky, are you saying that reputed "Know-It-All" God was experimenting?

Gene Roddenberry: "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing, all-powerful God who creates faulty humans and then blames them for His own mistakes." 

Thank you, Gene Roddenberry!

Shopenhauer alluded to an infant god who walked away from his first infantile creation; a tottering, senile god who later died.

Was the Biblical God one of compassion? Did God show that He cared anything about the screaming, horrified mothers or the crying of their babies or the panic of all the drowning animals? No! God just complains about His disappointment, then carries out a murderous vengeance by destroying almost every life-form He had made. The Kicker is: With the sacrifice of all those lives, God still failed to destroy evil. Was God, Himself, the evil?

Karen Armstrong - former nun and writer: God (in Genesis) is an undeveloped child. He doesn’t know what He is doing. He has got to grow up and learn like the rest of us how to relate to other people.

What kind of God creates this kind of history? Any "animal-abuse" here?

Did God not love the other people?

Are we protective of this God? Why? Isn’t it really fear? Do you love Him?

Is the Bible story of the flood where God wiped out all but 8 human beings a myth?

Do you feel that God did that or is the writer just telling us that for some reason?

Did humanity, Noah’s family, again, have to practice incest?

Isn’t everybody Hebrew? Where did Gentiles originate?

Was the Creator or His creation psychologically and /or morally impaired?

Many of these questions are yes or no questions. Can or will you answer them?

Genesis 8:3-4 At the end of 150 days, the waters diminished and the ark landed on Mount Ararat.

Feelings - we sometimes can’t really control; but, behavior, under the law, we must control. Hurt feelings are understandable. However, murderous behavior is criminal, illegal, and unacceptable. Did God’s feelings let Him down to do such heinous things to mankind?

Genesis 8:20-21 Noah built an altar and chose one from every clean animal and clean bird to sacrifice to God. God smelled the sweet odor of burning flesh and said to Himself: Since man’s desires are evil from the start, never again will I doom the Earth because of him.

Here is absolute evidence that Noah couldn’t have taken only one pair of animals each aboard the arc. Can’t this God’s desires and behavior be judged evil from the start? Why are people afraid that this God will end earth due to them. It says right here - He won’t. Don’t they trust His word?

Mind-set believers usually declare: I don’t want to talk about the facts. I want to only talk about the way I feel the facts should be. Most clergy set this model.

The Bible is a guidebook that comes across as often in error but never in doubt.

If apologists can have running commentaries on each Bible chapter, verse by verse, why can’t we? C. Dennis McKinsey

Later, as we shall see, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, with whom God covenants, (forms partnerships) practice incest, adultery, and polygamy. They lie, deceive, deal in slavery, and impregnate their slaves. Suddenly, there are people-a-plenty. Cities and nations are everywhere. For "sins", the Biblical God punishes innocent humans and has the most flawless animals sacrificed to Him. He murders others by war and disease.

When you pray, are you trying to tell God how to run His business?

In accordance to the words of the Bible, the God of creation seems "most intelligent" to be able to make the Solar System, including Earth and its life forms. But considering the very words that make up the stories, does the Biblical God’s attitudes, characteristics, and deeds show intelligence concerning His ability to run the business of dealing fairly or successfully with the life forms on Earth?

In the book of Genesis, was this God incapable to get it right the first time, or, was He sinister? Was this God "evil" by creating, enjoying, and feeding on the pain, horror, and terror. Was this all for His pleasure? Wasn’t the Biblical God guilty of all the murdering and the sacrifices depicted in these Old Testament stories?

God, to have the flood that murdered all but a few life forms, had to be frustrated. He couldn’t control things so like a child with a temper tantrum he destroyed everything.

This is a God who Gods by trial and error? Where does the myth that God is infallible, omnipotent, all knowing, a competent God come from? Certainly not from these Bible stories. God seems human, deeply flawed, unsure of what’s happening.

What kind of people like the fact that God drowns His creation and their babies? 

Karen Armstrong: I’m sorry. I can’t see the rainbow without also seeing the bloated bodies and the animals and the mud. I take away from the story the idea of a developing God. We start off with an infantile God knocking down His sand castles - a regretful God Who learns maturity and in the process brutalizes humanity - which then passes on the burden of suffering to other people.

Carol Gilligan, Ph.D., Professor / Psychologist: This is an imperfect God because God makes the same mistakes, again and again, like people do.

Genesis 9:1-3 God said to Noah and his sons: Be fruitful and multiply. All the animals, birds and creatures will dread and fear you. Every creature that is alive, I shall give you to eat.

What is God’s message, right here chapter and verse, for vegetarians?

Genesis 9:21-27 Noah got drunk and was naked. His son Ham saw him and told his brothers Shem and Japheth. They walked backwards and not looking at naked Noah, covered him. When Noah awoke, he cursed Canaan (Ham’s son) to be a slave.

Noah cursed Who?

Is this the Bible’s first example of a cover-up to protect one who is in authority? Noah is naked and drunk. Ham sees this and reports it to his brothers. They literally back in, not looking, and cover-up Noah’s condition and nakedness, as it is written. Believer: Don’t you say anything negative against God! Ever!

Genesis 9:24-28 Noah woke up from his drunkenness and said: Cursed be Canaan, the lowest of slaves shall he be to his brothers. Let Canaan be God’s slave. Catholic

Wasn’t Canaan Ham’s son? Wasn’t the "Land of Canaan" ultimately "The Promised Land"?

There is no evidence of any curse of Ham. Why is there any curse at all?

Pastor Arnold Murray preaches that Ham "uncovered his father's nakedness" - which means that Ham had sex and impregnated his own mother and that produced Canaan. Noah cursed Canaan because he wasn't Noah's son.

Genesis 9:28 Noah died at 950 years of age.

Was God’s real agenda: Obey Me, which you can’t, so, I can bring upon you murder, deception, flood, and sacrifice? Was God a sadist inflicting pain on helpless creatures?

Did He then insist that they brought it upon themselves? Is murder, theft and deception our nature? If yes, who created our nature? How can you have it both ways?

Can you have a healthy relationship with a God who punishes you throughout eternity?

One Mennonite lady asked: Why did God create people He could not love? (Wow!)

Another stated: Many, whom God supported, disappointed Him and He turned on them.

Noah’s was a bad drinker. When Noah drank, the next day he had to do two (2) things. He had to come back to pick up his arc, and he had to bring back the arc he took.

 

Perspective from Genesis to the present:

Brilliant, "know-it-all" God created Earth, man in His Own image, and all the animals on Earth.

 

God put an "evil serpent" in the "crib / garden" of his new, ignorant creation called "man".

 

Then, before the flood, God found evil and corruption in His new creation of mankind.

 

God could never make a mistake but, God did repent for creating mankind.

 

Next, "all knowing" God decided to murder, by drowning, every human being and animal life-form on planet Earth - minus just a few of each species.

 

But, did God's brilliant, "know-it-all" action correct His problem?

 

No!

 

Brilliant, "know-it-all" God still found evil and corruption in his creation of mankind after the flood. Did "know-it-all God know that evil would survive the flood?

Instead of killing the whole world again, all at once, God imposes on human individuals war, plagues, sickness and usually a painful death.

Then, after death, God gives all the human souls, He does not want to grovel, worship and serve Him, Eternal Torment.

What a God!

 

Pastor Arnold Murray teaches the Bible, chapter and verse, on television. Here are some of his, out of the mainstream, answers to questions written in:

Murray: Cain was not Adam’s son. Cain resulted from Eve having sexual relations with Satan, the serpent.

Some preaching can certainly qualify as strange. Note: This is not what the Bible says in Genesis 4:1. Satan is not mentioned. Adam knew his wife and made her pregnant. GWD

Pastor Murray? If Abel was good seed and Cain was bad seed, doesn’t that eliminate the possibility for Cain and Abel to be twins from the serpent’s (Satan’s) seed?

Murray: Ham’s sin was Ham had sex with Noah’s wife, his mother. That is what Noah cursed Ham for.

Doesn’t Murray admit here that Noah did curse Ham?

Pastor Murray points out in the English written Genesis to support his claim:

Leviticus 18:8 The nakedness of your father or mother you shall not uncover. KJV

Leviticus 20:11 The man who lies with his father’s wife uncovers his father’s nakedness. KJV

Another related question - Rusty from California: Please explain the curse of Ham?

Murray: You’ve been listening to preachers, because there was no curse put upon Ham and you’re mistaken. In Genesis 9, the curse was placed upon Canaan, not Ham, by Noah because Canaan was not Noah’s child. Ham uncovered the nakedness of his father which means according to Lev 20:11: Ham sexually seduced Noah’s wife (his mother). Canaan wasn’t Noah’s son, but Ham’s. Noah didn’t want to face Ham and drove him away and said he would be a servant to others. Some preachers amaze me. An act of intercourse changed his color? That’s the height of ignorance. My black brothers (Murray is white) are many times told they are part of this curse and that’s also idiocy and a lie. God created that race on the 6th day, He liked it. It was good. He created all races on the 6th day. Then, He created Adam because on the 8th day because He didn’t have a tender of the garden. But, there wasn’t a curse on Ham and it’s the traditions of men that make you ask the question and don’t feel bad. But, may all preachers that teach it feel bad and do their homework before they teach.

Q: So, Adam was not the first man on Earth?

Murray: There was a first Earth age and people (men only) before the age of Adam.

Does that explain the millions of years that science claims before Biblical events?

Murray states that Genesis supports, in the original manuscripts, that the Earth is millions of years old. He insists that there was a 1st Earth age prior to the human beings created on the 6th day of creation, long before the popular story of Adam and Eve. Murray states that Adam and Eve were specifically created on the 8th day so to tend God’s garden and to provide a womb / blood-lineage for His pre-destined plan of Jesus Christ. Pastor Murray, just how can there be a 1st Earth age prior to creation?

Genesis 10:5 The Isles of the Gentiles were divided. (KJV) The descendants of Japheth (KJV notes) later spread to maritime nations, each with its own language.

Gentiles have existed ever since the flood. How did Gentiles survive the flood? Did Gentiles continue to exist through Japtheth's bloodline? If so, how? Who was the origin of the Caucasian race?  Pastor Murray claims, that in the Hebrew manuscripts, Noah took 2 of each animal / flesh aboard the arc which included other Human races. The Adamic souls Noah, his wife, his 3 sons and their wives apparently the only ones that star in the Bible at this time.

Christian dogma would have only Noah's family to survive with no scientific explanation as to how the other races came to exist. Evolution, of course, would be out of the question.

Genesis 11:1 At this time, the whole world spoke the same language.

Genesis 11:6-7 God said: If the whole world speaks the same language, they will be able to do whatever they want to. Let us go down and confuse their language so they will not be able to do what they want to do.

Isn’t it generally your enemy, your adversary, your competition who stops you from doing what you want to do? Don’t we prevent our food animals from doing what they want to do so we can better control an orderly killing and consuming of them? Who is shown here to really be mankind’s adversary?

War / competition: A desire, agenda and a mind-set to prevent others from doing to you exactly what you willfully intend and are trying to do to them.

Genesis 11:31 Terah (Abraham’s father) establishes that Sarah is (only) his daughter-in-law.

Genesis 20:12 Abraham states: She (Sarah) is in truth my sister, but, only my father’s daughter, not my mothers, and so, she became my wife.

BN: Sarah was indeed his relative based on the Hurrian custom of wife-sister marriage.

Leviticus 20:17 If a man takes (sexually consummates marriage) with his sister, even a half-sister, who is the daughter of his father or mother, they will be cut off from their people. Since he committed incest... he shall bear his guilt. Torah

What? Abraham, the father of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions is guilty of "incest" which God forbid in Leviticus 20:17?

How many conflicts, debates and arguments does this important contradiction expose?

What about Abraham's character, his integrity, courage, his having incest with his half-sister? What traits does the father and origin of the Hebrew race, and the Jewish, Islam and Christianity religions show here? What a model!

The Bible introduces the origin, description, documentation of deeds and the essence of the God Christians worship. Why is it that most Christians don't want to know many selected Bible C&Vs that describe their God? The Biblical God is their God - isn't It? They do believer all of the Bible's C&Vs - don't they?

Genesis 12:1-3 God said to Abram: I will make you a great nation, make your name great. I will curse those who curse you. Catholic (Isn’t cursing somebody considered evil?)

Cathy, a former Mennonite lady: Mommy, why did God create the Devil?

Baby, God is the Devil. He’s just schizophrenic.

Genesis 12:12-20 Abram (man of greatness) said to his wife, Sarai (princess): You are so beautiful we will tell The Pharaoh that you are my sister so they won’t kill me. Pharaoh took Sarai and paid Abram flocks and wealth. God struck Pharaoh’s people with disease and death because of Sarai. When he found out she was Abram’s wife, Pharaoh asked Abram why he did that to him? Then, he forgave them both and sent them along their way with all the wealth.

Genesis 12:19 Pharaoh asked Abraham: Why did you say: She is my sister, so that I (Pharaoh) took her (Sarah) for my wife? Catholic

Unlike the KJV and the Torah, this Catholic version states: I took her for my wife.

In law, a marriage is not a marriage and a wife is not a wife unless consummated by sex.

Oh, what to believe! What would a fundamentalist say? Did Pharaoh have sex with Sarah?

Genesis 13:2 Now, Abram was rich in livestock, silver and gold.

Was Abraham our first pimp? Do you think Abe and Sarah would ever try this again?

Genesis 13:5-6 Lot, Abram’s nephew, and Abram grew so rich, they could not live together, their herds were so large.

Genesis 13:12-13 Lot moved near Sodom and Gomorra. The inhabitants of which were wicked in God’s eyes.

Oh my! Are they gonna to be in for it!

Genesis 14:8-16 There was a battle with 4 kings against 5 kings. The victors seized the spoils of Sodom and Gomorra and took Lot with them. Abram took 318 of his own people and defeated them at night. He recovered Lot and all the possessions.

Genesis 14:18 A priest, Melchizedek, (a type of Christ - Catholic) blessed Abraham and Abraham gave Melchizedek 10% of what he had.

This could have been the start of tithing. Jacob did it again later. Could Melchizedek be the clue as to who sold Abraham to become a worshipper of one God. Abraham broke with his family's tradition.

Joshua 24:2 Terah, Abraham's father, served other gods. 

In Hebrews chapters 5-7 Paul better explains Melchizedek.

Here are some conflicts concerning Melchizedek and Jesus. Pastor Arnold Murray has alluded that Melchizedek was Jesus. Aaron became the head of God's chosen Levite priests.  Melchizedek was not of Abraham's bloodline. Jesus was not of the Levite tribe of priest's bloodline as Jesus descended from the tribe of Judah. If God chose the Levite tribe to be His priests, why didn't Jesus Christ descend from the tribe of Levites?

Genesis 15:13-14 God said to Abram: Your descendants shall be aliens in the lands not their own where they will be slaves oppressed for 400 years. But, I will bring judgment upon the nation they serve and in the end, they will depart (Egypt?) with great wealth.

Contradiction? In Mark 10:25 Jesus said: Its easier for a camel go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter Heaven?

So, what is the real message concerning wealth? Something is not consistent here.

Genesis 16:1 Sarai nags Abram about being childless and gave Abram her hand maiden, Hagar, for sex and children. Hagar conceived a son.

Genesis 16:4-10 Abram had intercourse with Hagar, the Egyptian, and she became pregnant.

Hagar looked with contempt on her mistress Sarai, so Sarai abused her and she left. An angel of God said to Hagar: Go back to your mistress and submit yourself to her abusive treatment. (What?) God will make you many descendants. Catholic

How can an unchanging God possibly approve of this? Is adultery conditional, by consent?

Doesn’t God also show virtue in assault, abuse? Aren’t prisons full of righteous, God-like wife abusers and child beaters? Today, more women are murdered in the United States of America by domestic violence than by any other single means. (Internet news)

Azizah Y. Al-Hibri Ph.D.; Law professor, Islamic: One commentary says: Sarah was so mad at Hagar because of Abraham’s attention that she decided to mutilate her in some way to make her less interesting. And, that’s how female circumcision started.

Whoa! What? Really? Sarah! That’s despicable! Sarah, are you really the mother of two main religions? Is mutilating a woman’s sex organs part of your Judeo-Christian ethic? If so, Sarah, shame on you - big time! Abraham and Hagar started the Islamic religion. Maybe, that is why The Koran has a more detailed interest in her story.

Genesis 16:11-12 God tells Hagar: You are pregnant with a son you will name Ishmael. He will be a wild ass of a man; his hand against everyone and everyone’s hand against him.

Genesis 17:4-6 God said: You will no longer be called Abram (man of greatness), but Abraham (father of nations).

Genesis 17:15 Sarai (princess) was changed also to Sarah (queen).

Do you recall Genesis 20:12? God’s "holy-man" and his wife are half-brother and half-sister by the same father and different mothers.

Genesis 17:8 God said to Abraham: I will give to you and your descendants the whole land of Canaan as a permanent possession. Catholic

Genesis 17:9 God says: You and your descendants must obey My rules.

Genesis 17:12-14 You must be circumcised, or else.

Genesis 17:24-25 Abraham was 99, Ishmael l3, when they were circumcised.

Owie, owie!

Genesis 18:11-12 Sarah, (89) who no longer has her period, is told by God she will conceive. She says: I’m old, my husband is old (99). Am I still to have sexual pleasure? Catholic

Whew! Change the rating of this book! Actually, after Sarah died, about 37 years later, our old stud, Abraham, had 6 more sons with Keturah (Genesis 25 ) and more kids with some concubines. This God’s holy hero just does not fit today’s model of virtue, does he?

Genesis 18:13-15 God said to Abraham: Why did Sarah laugh? Sarah said: I didn’t laugh.

God said: Yes you did. Catholic

Did Sarah get caught lying to God? Did it matter?

Genesis 18:17 God wonders if He should hide from Abraham what He is about to do.

Genesis 18:22 The Lord remained standing before Abraham.

Really? Face to face?

Exodus 33:20 God states: No man sees My face and lives.

Can this possibly be a contradiction?

Genesis 18:25 Abraham asked God about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra: Far be it from You to do such a thing, to make the innocent die with the guilty? Should not the judge of all the world act with justice?

Nah - God destroys them anyway. Did Abraham question the morality, fairness, and decency of God, and live? Did Abraham, like Moses did twice in Exodus 32:11-14 and Numbers 14:13-20, attempt to teach God morality?

Genesis 19:5-26 Two human looking Angels arrive at Lot’s house. He lets them in, washes their feet, feeds them and prepares for bed. The entire townspeople come to his door and tells Lot to bring the two men out so they can have sex with them. Lot said to take his two daughters instead, that they have never had sex with a man. Do what you want to do with them; but, don’t do anything to these men. They threatened to have sex with Lot too. The two Angels struck the mob men with a blinding light and told Lot to take his wife and daughters away for they were about to destroy this place. Lot also warned his two proposed sons-in-law, but they thought he was joking. Lot took his wife and two virgin daughters, and with warnings not to look back, they fled. God destroyed the cities and all the people, even the innocent children. When the killing started, the noise and fire was so great that Lot’s wife turned to look at the carnage and was turned into a pillar of salt.

Genesis 19:30-36 Lot went up from the city of Tzoar. Since Lot was afraid to remain there, he decided to live in a cave, alone, with his two virgin daughters. They got him drunk, had sex with him and he got them both pregnant.

Weren’t these the only 3 people God spared from the destruction of Sodom? Didn’t God let them survive because He deemed them to be righteous? Is one who has sex with and impregnates both of his daughters righteous? Where is any tempting Devil during this scenario? Even during the "original sin", no Satan is ever mentioned. According to His track Own record, this God does it all. So, does any Satan exist? Could religion be but fabrications and myths engineered by the egos of power-hungry men? Like God, don’t egocentric and power-hungry men expect to be obeyed and served by dutiful slaves?

Bill Moyers: Lot offers his daughters to strangers. God makes judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah but not on Lot. Throughout Genesis, God is the father, the patriarch of a dysfunctional family.

In Genesis 20 Abraham and Sarah, again, pass themselves off to King Abimelech as brother and sister. The same, pimp and hook, con-job happens again. The King catches the con in time, yet, he pays off Abraham with herds, gold, and land. God’s wrath punishes the King by making him impotent to stop his bloodline. Abraham interceded and God changed His mind and restored sexual health to the King so that his maid-servants and wives could bear children.

What? Did God change His mind?

Did God condone sex with many wives? Maidservants? Concubines? Slaves?

Genesis 20:12 Abraham said: She (Sarah) is in truth my sister, but only my father’s daughter, not my mother’s.

Exhibit E: Incest is documented! Incest is in truth a fact or Abraham is in truth a liar.

Didn’t Abraham sell his wife into a harem by pretending she was his sister? If Abraham has sex with his half-sister Sarah, doesn’t that make their relationship incest? Doesn’t this very same Biblical God condemn incest in Leviticus 20:17? Didn’t Abraham trick Pharaoh and King Abimelech and in both cases get paid off? Did these ends justify God’s means? Did Sarah sacrifice herself for her half-brother / husband? Or, did Sarah have her own agenda to get pregnant, to help Abraham become a father? If Sarah had become pregnant by Pharaoh, could she had possibly become the Queen of Egypt? What was God’s plan? How would you explain this documented incest and pimping to your sons and daughters?

Didn’t God / Abraham teach us: If you "sell" your wife you will make a lot of profit?

Another minor detail: Back in Genesis 18:11-12 Sarah was 89 years old and "dried up". The Pharaoh and King Abimelech must share a "horny for old ladies" syndrome. Occasionally, Bible stories are totally absurd.

Rabbi Burt Visotzky: Rabbis don’t normally ask questions about women.

Pastor Eugene Rivers III: What would have happened to Abraham if he had not lied about what his relationship was with the woman? Listen, I can imagine lying. Here’s a black dude in the inner city. He’s got a white wife. A couple Egyptian brothers roll up on the brother with a white wife. Now this guy’s not a complete fool "Yo baby, we work together, right? Pretend you’re my boss. You’re not my wife right, because if you’re my wife, you may be a widow by the end of the evening.

What? Was Abraham black? Really?

Genesis 21:10 Sarah demanded Abraham drive Hagar and her son out. No slave is going to share the inheritance with my son, (Isaac).

Isaac means laughter. The Bible should be called Isaac.

Genesis 21:20-21 God was with Hagar and her son. Hagar got a wife for Ishmael, in Egypt.

Hagar was Sarah's slave girl. When Sarah was beyond menopause, she had her husband Abraham have sex with Hagar so she could have a child by her. Sarah "abused" Hagar by female-circumcision. The Koran provides more detail of Hagar's abuse than does the Judeo-Christian Bible. This link explains much about Hagar:

http://www.womeninthebible.net/1.2.Hagar.htm

 

Ishmael means "God has heard". Wasn’t Ishmael chosen, by God, too? Through Ishmael, wasn’t the Islamic religion founded on Abraham, a Hebrew father?

Azizah Y. Al-Hibri: In the Qur’an, Abraham and Ishmael build the first house of God on earth, the Ka’ba, that is in Mecca.

Genesis 22:1-2 God told Abraham to sacrifice his son as a burnt offering. KJV

Genesis 22:11-15 The Lord’s messenger calls it off then seems to turn into God himself.

An Angel called it off when it was obvious that Abraham would sacrifice murder, slice up and cook Isaac in about 2050 BC? Never again does the Biblical God or any of His angels call human sacrifice off, even with Jesus. So, was this one God, Himself or an angel? How could a subordinate messenger / Angel countermand God’s order? If God appears as the angel wasn’t that deceptive? God has His reasons, you say? Every criminal has motives (reasons) for his agenda.

Genesis 22:4 Abraham said to his servants: Stay here. We (Isaac and I) are going up to worship. We (Isaac and I) will be back.

If Abraham knew that we (Isaac and I) would be back, what’s going on here? If Abraham planned to sacrifice Isaac, then Abraham lied to his servants, again, making him a liar.

Again, in Genesis 22:1-2, God spoke to Abraham ordering him to sacrifice Isaac. But then in Genesis 22:15-18 I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you acted as you did in not withholding from Me your beloved son I will bless you, all because you obeyed My command.

Catholic Recap: God promises Abraham, age 75, to be the father of nations. When Sarah is 76 she sends Abraham (then 86) in to have sex with Hagar, her Egyptian handmaid. Abraham consents to adultery which produces Ishmael - and about 4,000 years of war in the middle east. Sarah hears God say that she will have a child and laughs at God’s words. She lies to God by denying it. Still, when Abraham is 100, God rewards Sarah, 90, for her role in His plan and gives her Isaac (laughter) whom Abraham almost sacrifices. After Isaac’s "called-off" sacrifice, never again is there any Biblical talk between Isaac (or Sarah) and Abraham. Some parents are horrified by this story of God’s child abuse. What is a dysfunctional family or a dysfunctional god? The Koran has scenarios whereby Abraham and Ishmael later built monuments together in Mecca.

If God said to you: Only I deserve your love. Show me you love Me more than your son. If God then wanted you to personally sacrifice your son, would you do it? If yes, are you nuts? How about sending your child off to kill or die in some political struggle on behalf of powers outside of the United States? Does that murdering God-like tradition turn you on?

Bill Moyers: That story (Abraham’s sacrifice) presupposes that the nature of God requires something to suffer in order for God to be satisfied.

What is child abuse? Isn’t one’s putting a knife to his child’s throat child abuse? Then, why wouldn’t it be if Abraham and God were doing it? Bad, ugly, criminal and heinous deeds are what they are regardless of Who does them.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham justified by works when he offered to sacrifice Isaac?

When Sarah let Abraham have sex with Hagar, did God reward her by giving her Isaac? If you were asked this question by your own kids, how would you answer it?

For Hagar, the slave girl, wasn’t having sex with Abraham a great career move? What does this model teach? Was Hagar’s not resisting having sex with Abraham due to his wife’s suggestion? What will you tell your daughter concerning Abraham and Hagar?

Nothing? You would avoid the subject, you say? Why? It is Biblical.

Genesis 22:12 Being feared pleased God. KJV

Genesis 23:1 Sarah lived until she was 127 years old.

Is the genetic effect of something wearing off?

Genesis 24:9 So the servant put his hand under the thigh of his master and swore to him in this undertaking.

In those days, one man grabbed another man’s testicles (balls) and sacredly swore he would do something; thus comes the words testify, and sacred testimony.

Genesis 24:35 God granted Abraham slaves and slave-girls. Torah / Catholic

What could be better proof or evidence of this God’s attitude concerning slavery?

Joel 3:8 God said: I will sell your sons and you daughters into the hands of the children of Judah and they will sell them to the Sabeans… KJV

Genesis 24:34-66 A man said: I am a servant of Abraham, a wealthy man who has given everything he has to his son. I am here to get a wife for my master’s son. Laban replied: Here is Rebekah (Laban’s own sister) ready for you. The man gave gold, silver and clothes for Rebekah and gave costly presents to her brother (Laban) and to her mother. They said: Let’s see what Rebekah says. Rebekah said: "I do". Rebekah later saw Isaac and asked: Is that my master? "Yes". She covered her face with her veil. Isaac (age 40) took her into his recently departed mother Sarah’s tent and "married" her. Torah

They did "the sacred wild-thing", because without their consummating the sex act, there legally was no marriage.

Genesis 25:1-7 After Sarah died, Abraham married another wife, Keturah and had 6 more sons.

One of Abraham's sons with Keturah was Midian. This is important because later Moses' wife was a Midianite but Moses waged war on the Midianites heavily in Numbers 25 & 31.

He had more sons by concubines that he gave grants to, then sent them away from Isaac.

Abraham died at 175 years of age. It was emphasized that Abraham was too old for his first kid, Ishmael. Many years later he has another wife, more kids and other concubines.

 

 

 

 

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